Are You Anxious To Find "The One?" - Searching For Your RV - How Best To Do That?

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Ready to RV hop

After figuring out what you really want in an RV you get to move to the next step. Go physically look at RV's. Look at new ones, look and used ones, look at cheap ones, look at expensive ones. All the while you are looking take physical notes, photos and discuss the attributes or lack of for each one you view. The more RV's you look at the easier and more apparent it will become to you what features are "must haves" what features are "nice to haves" and what features "don't have a place" in your RV.

Starting your search. Our methods may not fit you personally but I suggest that you start using the internet. For instance your search terms may be "Used 2003-2005 Class A diesel pushers with three slides"  Sample Search Term - CLICK HERE TO GO TO GOOGLE SEARCH

This search may not target exactly what you are looking for but it will give you a good start.

How to deal with finding an RV on line?

First your search will undoubtedly give you dealers, private sales, bank repo's, and a few shysters along the way.  You will be faced with auctions on Ebay, dealer tactics like no pricing on an add, or dealers that have high prep and destination fees. Don't let these shake you up. Just go with it.

What do I mean "go with it?" read on.

Dealers

Well first most dealers without pricing on a unit want your name and contact information. Just do it, sometimes it is worth talking with someone that can steer you into the right direction. Give them your needs and wants list and let them provide you with the units that fit your ideal RV. Never discount a new unit missing your budget. Just let them give you an entire list.

After you have seen what they have to offer and the pricing it is time to get specific with them. Give them an entire list of what it is that could be a deal maker and what may be a deal breaker for you. For instance, in my search these are the parameter that I give sales people:

Diesel - 300-330 HP
Mileage 75K-175K (diesels at 75K have barely been broken in)
Freightliner Chassis
No dinette - table and chairs only
Leather upholstery
King Bed
No Smells (I tell them it is a deal breaker period ie: cats, dogs, mildew, smokers)
Newer tires (when you look there will be four oval windows on the side wall the last is the week and year the tires were made - 0213 means second week of 2013)
Newer Batteries
My not to exceed budget
Don't discuss finances until it is unavoidable

Will the dealers sales people bug you? Not usually unless the sales person is really good at what they do. Let them call you but when you provide contact information give the a cell number. Why? it is easier to block a number from your cell phone.

Dealing with asking prices

They are "asking" prices period.  Dealers usually mark up units between 22%-35%  Yes, really. Obviously they have a lot of overhead, flooring (interest for bringing units on the lot until they sell) and prep costs (putting things together that were not together from the factory).

Tell the dealer you are only "looking" and will purchase at a later date after you've explored your options. Let them show you units that fit your list of wants.

Take cell photos of them as you walk through. Make sure you look into all of the storage bays and in every nook and cranny of the RV. Let him quote you a price. Write the price down and reference it with the dealer stock number of the unit (important because after looking a while all of the units start running together, the stock number makes it easier to be specific about a unit you're interesed in).

After your finished, let them know if you are interested in a particular unit and leave the dealership (don't worry, if it sells there are lots of others).

Your next step is to consult a NADA RV Pricing Guide. Plug in all of the information regarding the unit you liked so that you can get a determination of what the unit is worth. Be honest about what equipment and amenities are included.  If the number is far below the asking price you have two options, walk away or shoot the dealer an offer lower than NADA. Always, always know what the unit is worth or you will get screwed. Also be aware the unit may be on consignment and the owner has to have a specific amount to pay it off.

These units are easy to spot after a bit of practice. For instance you are looking a a 2003 Winnebago Journey DL. It may be priced at $75,000 at the dealer and when you book it in NADA you may find that the unit should bring closer to $50,000 or even below depending on the condition.

Down payments and loans

If a dealer wants 15% down take a walk, there an abundance of dealers out there.

There are a lot of other dealers around each of them is betting your credit will be marginal to mediocre. They have lenders make agreements with the dealer. That agreement means that the lender can quote you with higher interest rates for less than perfect credit. That in turn will net kick back to the dealer. You have to weigh what your personal situation will accommodate financially and if you can live with extra finance charges to get what you want.

Dealers have quoted us anywhere from $500-$15,000 down. A little out of whack eh?

My advise is that if you need a loan get pre-approved for a loan. That way you can deal with a credit union or a bank of your choice. You can also google "RV finance sources."

Private sales

I cannot stress enough to do your homework. Know in advance what to inspect for when viewing an RV offered by an individual.  For instance, we found a really nice 2003 Newmar coach. When I started looking closely I found the outside slide out kitchen wall separated at the sides and the outside top. It had been neatly caulked but was structurally iffy.  When I looked in the engine compartment I saw two RATS.  Rats chew wiring. I walked away.

If you see an ad on Ebay or Craigslist book the unit prior to going to view the coach. Know what it is worth in "fair, good and excellent condition."  If you are interested in purchasing the unit drive it, run the generator, make sure everything works on shore power and on generator power. If it has solar panels insure they are working and ask how to make the on board conversion from shore/generator power to solar. Check the tires and batteries. Check stoves, ovens, microwave, refrigerator (make sure that electric and propane both work), look for discoloration or delamination in walls and ceilings and outside fiberglass exteriors (indicates moisture problems). If at this point you still think you might want to purchase the RV have an RV inspection service check it out for you and give you a report. It may save you thousands.

Bank Repossessions

Yes they are out there. Dealers usually handle these for the banks. Obviously the dealers make a percentage of the sale. Again know your units price. Offer substantially lower than the dealer is asking. All they can say is no.

Purchasing older with the intent to remodel

Buying a older unit or a beat up unit can be an option. You can find all classes of RV's in this category. You need to be confident of your skills, have sources for replacement parts and have a lot of time on your hands. Most cabinetry is custom made in an RV so that in itself can be problematic. Just be aware that you will have a lot of work ahead of you.

Additional Puzzle Pieces - What Considerations Need To Be Made Prior To Hitting The Road? How Do You The Pieces To Fit Together?

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So, now you've determined what Class RV, what engine we want in the RV and now we a general feel for which RV's will provide us with the amenities we desire. So what else needs to be done?

Possible puzzle pieces that may need to fit into the overall puzzle?

1. Sell my car because we won't need two and hers is smaller and lighter for towing

2. Try to figure out which finance companies offer the best RV interest rates

3. Get pre-approved for an RV loan

3. Gather the down payment

4. Locate and purchase the RV

5. Purchase RV peripherals such as a portable waste tank, sewer hose, water hoses if not included in the purchase

6. If required make necessary repairs or mods to the RV

7. Purchase a car hauler and car hold down straps for Martha's car and my motorcycle 

8. Establish a domicile address and/or a mail forwarding service (UPS ?)

9. Sell or get rid the stuff we won't need in the RV

10. Store the stuff we want to save for at least a year

11. Figure out what paperwork (past taxes, important papers, etc.) go along with us

12. Sort old photos and decide whether they need to be scanned and saved, just saved and stored or just thrown out.

13. Martha needs to figure out if she will continue to work and if so, what will she do.

14. Look at campground memberships, Good Sams for the towing insurance? Are these worth it?

15. Banking? Keep it where it is now? Will there be extra fee's if we keep our existing?

16. What do we do about having refrigerated medications forwarded through a mail forwarding service quickly? IF YOU CAN ANSWER THIS PLEASE LEAVE A COMMENT.

What Type And Class RV Will You Choose? - We've decided on a Class A - How To Narrow Your Search

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The search begins

After weeks of painstaking decision making we decided we need a "Class A" RV.  Now to get down to the heart of it. We need to find that RV. You can use what you like from the following information, I am aware that this information will be specific to each potential owners requirements.

We have been to Springfield, Mo., Tulsa, Oklahoma and Fayetteville, Arkansas looking at Class A RV's. I have driven a used 40' footer and have educated myself on what to look for in a diesel rig. At this point I have a good feel for the engine and transmission and the type of chassis.

The engine, transmission and chassis

I've settled on search for a coach with at least a 330 hp ISC engine and a 6 speed Allison transmission on a (preferably) Freightliner chassis.

If you research the differences between and ISB and a ISC engines will find that an ISB engine can make 200-325 HP depending on the application while an ISC engine will make between 260-350 HP depending on the application.

The ISC is most often used in buses and motorhomes because they produce more torque while the ISB is most often used in Dodge Trucks (2500, 3500 etc).

Therefore my preference will be a ISC engine.

What year coach can we afford?

To meet our budget of $40-$50K we've necessarily narrowed the search down to 2003 - 2005 coaches.

What kind of mileage is on 2003-2005 coaches?

Mileage totals on these coaches vary widely. We've seen coaches that range from as low as 25,000 miles to as high as 175,000 miles. The differences are quite a lot. I am guessing that the lower mileage units were used by snowbirds who left their coaches stored in their winter locations while the higher mileage coaches were used by people like us who want to travel.

What am I looking for as far as systems maintenance in these coaches?

In either case there are pros and cons. For instance, if the coach set static for large periods of time I would be worried about engine seals, gaskets, tires and belts drying out an in need of replacement. I would also be concerned about batteries being at the end of their useful lives due to lack of proper maintenance.

On the flip side, the high mileage vehicle may have the same issues from constant use. However, batteries and coach systems may be in better working order due the necessity of daily use.

When inspecting the inside of the coach what are we looking for?

Lets go for the obvious first, we need to insure the coach is water tight and not water damaged

1. No sign of previous or present leaks - Inspect for wall or ceiling discoloration in the entire coach
2. Look for interior de-lamination of wall panels or ceilings throughout.
3. Walk the entire coach and make a point of trying to find a springy spot in the floors.
4. Make sure you look for springy floors at each slide out where the slide outs meets the stationary walls
5. Look for water damaged floors near showers, washer/dryers (hookup leaks)
6. Look inside the coach where you see vents on the outside of the coach. These frequently leak.

Inspect for the not so obvious

1. Look inside the coaches electrical breaker box. Insure that it is the amperage listed on the advertisement ie: 30 or 50 Amp. Also inspect for cobbled up wiring entering the box.
2. Insist that the sales person run the slides in and out (all of them). Look for misaligned slides (look at them slid in and slid out to insure there is a proper seal in both positions and that the slide isn't crooked in either position (think sliding the room out and hitting a tree or moving the RV and without retracting the slide).
3. Try the vent fans insure they work
4. Try the AC units insure they work.
5. Try the water pump insure it works
6. Try the heater and insure it works.

Inspect the coach to insure that the floor plan meets your personal criteria

Living in an RV is going to be less spacious. Make sure you try to hit about 75-80% of your must haves in a coach.

No compromise items

Leather furniture in good shape
Above average counter space
Refrigerator with ice maker
Stove with oven or microwave with convection oven
At least one recliner
Large bath (I'm large) Split bath a +
Opposing slides in the living space to create a feeling of spaciousness
NO FREAKING DINETTE table and chairs only.
Washer/Dryer
No previous owners smells, no smoking, no pets, no mold, no musty smells.
Electric steps
Diesel
Large basement storage
Good canvas on all awnings
New or newer tires all around

Flexible items

TV placed in a logical position instead of having to break your neck to watch it.
Carpet but we prefer hard surfaces
King bed but we would adjust to Queen
A dedicated space to work from (preferred for Martha)
If necessary a dinette will be accepted but torn out for replacement table and chairs
Older batteries if the price is right
Canvas can be old with UV damage to be replaced later
Older tires that are unchecked from UV

Our preferred Motor Coaches in order

1. SeeYa by Alpha (We've eliminated this RV from our list due to lack of manufacturers support)
2. Latitude by Winnebago
3. Journey by Winnebago
4. Ambassador by Holiday Rambler
5. Allegro by Tiffin

The above coaches meet our personal criteria for layout and amenities. Our search will continue with the above list as our targets.

Choosing An RV Type And Class - RV Type Comparison Pros and Cons List - What We Considered When Choosing The Type OF RV We Want - Will Your Requirements Be Similar?

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The things that should be considered when deciding which type of RV would fit you

Class B RV's

At this point we knew we wanted an RV but we had some conflicts about what Class RV we should be looking at. To compound the decision we knew we had to decide whether we wanted to continue overseas travel or not and do we want to enhance our travel within the United States by virtue of staying longer in one place than we have in the past and do this in our own RV?  

We decided that a combination of the two was required and set off looking for a Class B van.  

We traveled to Springfield, Missouri (Reliable RV), Covington, Louisiana (Berryland RV) and to Ramsey, Minnesota (Lake Region RVs) to specifically see the best in Class B's and hopefully find a used one we could afford.  

As we looked we became convinced us that the van wouldn't provide enough space for each of us to have some private space and that the Class B's in general were enormously expensive per square foot.  As we mulled our possibilities and our budget we came to the conclusion that if we were going to consider $125,000 for a Class B Van then we should consider an older RV of some type and gain some space and amenities while saving some money.

Now that we eliminated the Class B's entirely, what RV will fit the bill?

Going from knowing exactly what we wanted to what the hell do we want (again) set us back in the uncomfortable but necessary position of comparing the advantages and disadvantages of towing or driving our next home. We are methodical people so we decided to compare the advantages and disadvantages of each type of RV that we would consider. Below you will see our Pros and Con's list.

In order to figure out which trailer, fifth wheel or motor home we should consider we had to look hard at our budget and ultimately settled on a not to exceed $40,000 target. This took into consideration our budget at that time. It presupposed that with our payments at the time that we would be able to purchased the RV and still pay all of our bills. 

As you read this you will see that some of these considerations are purely personal due to our finances.

Our comparison list

Fifth Wheel Trailers

Pros

Better and more choices on interior layout

Good weight distribution

Slide outs

Trailer brakes

King Beds

Better separation of living and bedroom space

Larger Baths

No toad necessary (towed vehicle)

Leave the rig parked when you leave

Basement storage is large

Con's

Have to purchase an expensive tow vehicle

We have to trade both vehicles in to afford the tow vehicle

The entire rig length and weight would dictate a diesel vehicle

Specialized hitch required

We have to trade both vehicles in to afford the tow vehicle

3 season rigs, meaning winter use at below freezing would be iffy

Most do not have generators

Two loans - trailer and truck

Selling or trading Chucks care (upside down) will require a small personal loan

Total costs will likely exceed $95-$100K

Pull Behind Trailer

Pros

Better and more choices on interior layout

Good weight distribution

Slide outs

Trailer brakes

King Beds

Better separation of living and bedroom space

Larger Baths

No toad necessary (towed vehicle)

Leave the rig parked when you leave

Basement storage is adequate

Con's

Have to purchase an expensive tow vehicle

We have to trade both vehicles in to afford the tow vehicle

The entire rig length and weight would dictate a diesel vehicle

Specialized hitch required

3 season rigs, meaning winter use at below freezing would be iffy

Most do not have generators

Water, black water and grey water tanks are smaller

Two loans - Trailer and truck

Selling or trading Chucks care (upside down) will require a small personal loan

Total costs will likely exceed $75-$85K

Class A Diesel Motorhome

Pros 

Leave the rig parked when you leave (with toad)

Good interior floor plan layouts

Bus chassis often with air ride

Large basement storage

Often only queen beds are available

Good separation between living and bedroom 

Medium to large baths, often split baths

Keep our Kia Rio (paid for)

Large diesel engines with more torque for mountains and towing.

Most have heated basements allowing for four season use

Generators

Water, black water and grey water tanks are larger

Con's 

Large diesel engines suck more fuel (8-10mpg)

To afford one we have to be in the 2003-2005 range with 150K+ miles and $35K-$40K price range

Because tanks are larger you are hauling more weight.

Two Loans - RV and Car Hauler

Selling or trading Chucks care (upside down) will require a small personal loan

Total costs will likely exceed $55-65K

As you may be able to see, the Class A wins for a full time endeavor. Especially given our finances and that we ultimately need the space and amenities that Class A provides for personal comfort. After all, this will be home.

The "Process" - How We Arrived At Our Decision - Where We Are In The Process - Are Your Circumstances Like Ours?

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Owning and living in an RV - Are you ready?

So, if you are like us (new to the full timing world but not RVing) or, if you preceded us in the process of getting out of home ownership and going on the road full time, some of what you will read will be new or redundant depending on your personal situation.

We don't expect everyone to understand our need to let go of a physical address but we hope to at least make sense of it for you if you need roots.

How did we come to the decision of transitioning to full time travel without the need of a full time address?

For us it was the process of never having enough time to spend in any one place. We have had many great vacations over the years. but we are migrants by heart and tended to move every 5 years or so through out our marriage.

As time went on we began wanting to move on to other places. We wanted to learn their very unique local cultures. The problem for us was and is, we don't get to stay in on place long enough to really get to know it. We had to go back to work. Being realists we also knew that after a month in one place we would quickly become bored and want to move on.

So, a plan was hatched to someday go on the road permanently so we could keep those experiences coming and to appreciate the very act of traveling, scenery and people.

What factors did we consider to make this idea into reality?

First it makes it easier for us to do this because I am on a fairly comfortable fixed income. This makes it easy to manage our monthly expenses.  Additionally, our youngest son just graduated from college and has essentially flown from the coup and our expendable income has risen as a result.

Other deciding factors were my other adult children and grandchildren. They all live in a large city and are working their way through the corporate and business ownership maze. We don't see any of them often so going on the road is feasible. In fact, we may actually get to visit them more often.

Home ownership is something we bailed out on about five years ago. We owned a lovely home in Holiday Island, Arkansas. I am getting older and there was a three and a half story rear facade on our house that I would periodically have to maintain. Older + thirty five feet in the air + plus old legs = a recipe for a bad accident. So, mutually we decided that we would sell and lease a home instead.

Leasing a home lends it self very well to being nomadic. But since our youngest son was still in college we decided to stay put to provide support (read: $$$) for him while he was still in school and also to give the peace of mind that we would be available for council and support. Now that he is done we intend to not to renew our lease next June 2017.

This also will be the month we are aiming at to start our full time experience.  By then we hope to have purchased a used Class A Motorhome, sold the things we aren't storing and packing up and getting the heck out of town.

Now you know the "who, what, why, when" (we are still working on "where.")  What's next?  Stay tuned to our next blog entry.

Why An RV? - Do You Have a" Family Tradition" Of Family Camping? - Will Your Obsession Take You In The Direction Ours Did?

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 The Family Obsession

"How can we know who we are and where we are going if we don't know anything about where we have come from and what we've been through, the courage shown, the costs paid, to be where we are?" (Davide McCullough)

To answer this question I have to go back a long way to my childhood.  As a child I grew up with camping. My parents, brother and I camped nearly every weekend.

We started in a canvas wall tent that didn't have a floor. It was Army Surplus purchased by my Dad at an Army/Navy surplus store. I was very little maybe five but I do have one vivid recollection camping in that tent in very bad thunderstorm. My Dad put the tent bad location (in a gully). Late at night the storm raged and the rain was relentless.  I woke up to my mother screaming and silhouetted by a lighting flash just just in time to see her floating floating away under the walls of the tent on an air mattress. My Dad was laughing uncontrollably. It's a memory I will never forget. My Mom, well she didn't share the humor of the situation

I don't remember the whole story but I do remember that the next time we camped it was in an Umbrella Tent with a floor. 

Around 1962 my parents gave up on tents and bought a Forest River Shasta 16' pull behind trailer. It was plush compared to the tents.

But as a family we quickly outgrew it and Dad purchased a Forest River Comanche which they kept until the early 70's.

The Obsession Continues

After I left home for and returned from the Army I married my first wife. As is the case with young families I wanted everything. I specifically wanted a camping trailer and couldn't afford one on an apprentice carpenters wages until I found the Appleby Trailer company and bought my first trailer a Pop up.

As the saying goes I was "Shi__ing in tall cotton." However like all cheap trailers this one quickly degraded and was sent to the junk heap.

The Family Obsession endures

After meeting Martha in the 90's we bought a really large tent which was used for one or two outings until we recognized the "hard work" that was tent camping. 

From there we went without a tent until the nineties when we bought our first RV. It was a 1979 Class C Honey Princess.  All systems worked but the engine was a problem from the day we bought it. 

I can say without doubt or hesitation that this was the ultimate in beach RV's. We visited Bay St. Louis, The Florida Keys and all points in between with this rig. We loved the old coach because it was rough around the edges, we didn't have to worry about sand getting inside and it provided tons of fun. 

But it too died a slow methodical death hastened by engine problems.  Ultimately, it sent to a hunting camp in Louisiana to retire. 

At the time we lived in Louisiana and deemed it necessary to have a Hurricane escape vehicle and purchased a Forest River 32 foot pull behind about a year before Hurricane Katrina. 

We kept this RV until we arrived in Arkansas and sold it shortly after and have been trailer-less since.

As you can see we are not strangers to the RV and camping experience. Some of our most meaningful and deep conversations have come sitting around the campfire. We are anxious to continue the tradition.

"Wandering Toes" Join Us For Hints And Tips About How To Transition From A Physical AddressTo Life In An RV !

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This is an invitation to follow us as we transition to no permanent address and take to life on the road in an RV.  Our intention for this blog is to share our process and hopefully provide some information that will help people like us making this transition and we hope to make you laugh at our mistakes and entertain you at our expense with our future experiences.

I suppose a short introduction is in order. I am Charlie and I've been retired for quite some time now. I am 66 years old soon to be 67 (Sept 17th).  My beautiful and talented wife Martha is my soul mate and life partner. Martha (for lack of better terminology) is a "career academic." She has two PhD's and so many extensions behind her name they won't fit onto a business card.

   

We have dreamed for the last 25 years about seeing the United State and being able to stay for more than a couple of weeks at a time. We've always felt cheated out of getting to truly know a location and what's available to do in the areas we've vacationed in.  We believe there is no real way to get to know these things without an extended stay.

So, it finally seems the right time for us to get serious and purchase our Class A RV and hit the road, follow us as we prepare to get ready for the great adventure ahead of us. There will be helpful hints, comparisons and other helpful information to help you get underway.